Curse

lacasner · Aug 07, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Hmm..I will try to summerize my point the best I can.
Ok, to begin with...I would like to start off by asking a question.Well, rather a statement.Now, as far as i understand, Arena Net's goal in creating Guild Wars was to create a revolutionary game, A non-grinding essentially game where players could be distinguished by skill.

Well, to the common observer, maybe one who has been involved in gaming, such as MMORPG's for a while, would see this as an awsome idea. "Wow," he/she would think, "No more grinding and sensless eliteism over someone spending more time on the game than me!!" Yes, that must seem like a happy moment.

That actually was exactly how i reacted, but after more thought before buying the game i wondered how this would be accomplished. Hehe, in my "quote, unquote" noob days i was greatly impressed. "Yes!!" i thought, finally no more pointless grind, finally a worthwile game!".

Hehe, well what did i find out? They had made this game COMPLETELY WRONG for their objective. With the seemingly limited skill availability, and game objectives as well, this game appeared just as the others. Dang, i guess you are more skilled than me because you can CLICK your mouse FASTER! ZOmg, better timing, i am blown away by your greatness.

THe idea is great, but the setup is wrong. THe infestructure of the game must be changed in order to acheive the idea of skill greatness.

Mithie · Aug 07, 2006, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacasner

Hmm..I will try to summerize my point the best I can.
Ok, to begin with...I would like to start off by asking a question.Well, rather a statement.Now, as far as i understand, Arena Net's goal in creating Guild Wars was to create a revolutionary game, A non-grinding essentially game where players could be distinguished by skill.

Well, to the common observer, maybe one who has been involved in gaming, such as MMORPG's for a while, would see this as an awsome idea. "Wow," he/she would think, "No more grinding and sensless eliteism over someone spending more time on the game than me!!" Yes, that must seem like a happy moment.

That actually was exactly how i reacted, but after more thought before buying the game i wondered how this would be accomplished. Hehe, in my "quote, unquote" noob days i was greatly impressed. "Yes!!" i thought, finally no more pointless grind, finally a worthwile game!".

Hehe, well what did i find out? They had made this game COMPLETELY WRONG for their objective. With the seemingly limited skill availability, and game objectives as well, this game appeared just as the others. Dang, i guess you are more skilled than me because you can CLICK your mouse FASTER! ZOmg, better timing, i am blown away by your greatness.

THe idea is great, but the setup is wrong. THe infestructure of the game must be changed in order to acheive the idea of skill greatness.

Um... if he can click the mouse at the right time, e.g. infusing through a necro spike while you can't, then, yeah, he's more skilled than you.

Pretty simple, really.

Jetdoc · Aug 07, 2006, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacasner

Dang, i guess you are more skilled than me because you can CLICK your mouse FASTER! ZOmg, better timing, i am blown away by your greatness.

Ahhh...but that "faster click" isn't due to Jedi reflexes or a HAL-2000 computer...

"Skill" in Guild Wars is derived from the following, IMO:

1. Planning. Yes, the cookie-cutter player builds and team builds that you find on these and other forums are very nice as they are tested and well thought out. But those that truly excel at the game aren't lemmings - they grasp the concepts behind the builds and adjust them to their particular situation.

2. Anticipation. The "quick click" you refer to above is nine times out of ten due to skill. Anticipating your enemy's next action can make all the difference in whether a player lives or dies, whether that boss is interrupted or whether your team gets mobbed by 1,000 enemies because you triggered an unforseen trap. Some of the best monks I've played with had anticipated spikes right before they happened, preventing much of the damage and having a ton of energy left to spare due to their anticipation.

3. Adaptation. I've seen many cookie-cutter PvE teams fall apart due to a player disconnecting, the monk dying in a bad spot, etc. That is where the players with skill truly shine through - they can adapt to their current situation and adjust their strategies accordingly in order to compensate for the weakness, versus just rage-quitting and chalking it up to a loss.

There is a massive amount of skill involved in Guild Wars...it is just hard to glean that since we don't wear a badge of inflated levels on our chests like other games...

erick5876 · Aug 07, 2006, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithie

Um... if he can click the mouse at the right time, e.g. infusing through a necro spike while you can't, then, yeah, he's more skilled than you.

Pretty simple, really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

Ahhh...but that "faster click" isn't due to Jedi reflexes or a HAL-2000 computer
...
There is a massive amount of skill involved in Guild Wars...it is just hard to glean that since we don't wear a badge of inflated levels on our chests like other games...

Along with what you both said, Lacasner still has a valid point. The skills are what make the planning, anticipation, and adaptation possible. There are already a great number of skills, but only so many are considered to be truly effective. Think of skills like a collectible card game. The more there are, the more skill is required to determine which ones to include to play effectively. Also, most players start out in such games by purchasing a pre-built deck, then teak it by adding cards obtained later. Guild Wars skill system works in much the same way. So, theoretically, more skills are added to the game with each chapter (or expansions / prebuilt decks in a CCG). Eventually, players starting on Chapter XYZ will have skills different to someone starting on Chapter ABC, and although the core skills are available accross all chapters, it takes skill to know which ones to bring and how to utilize them.

Kruzing Low · Aug 07, 2006, 07:17 PM // 19:17

lol @ everyone typing essays over this
you guys talking about "elitism" is no better then the players who youre talking about
these "elite" you talk about play hours and hours each day and diss anyone who doesnt play as much as them
you guys are doing the same thing, youre dissing them because they play too much
whos in any position to judge anyone over this? why diss someone over their choice of playing habits?
some people choose to devote their life to a game, some like to play the game for fun, some play to kill time; theres hundreds of reasons why people play games
lmao @ the dude who said the world should go back to beating school children and force people in the military, yeah ok we can do that, then you can say bye to what america stands for; freedom

shardfenix · Aug 07, 2006, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sli Ander

How many tries did it take Edison to make a lightbulb? Can you deny that most of our modern inventions are based off his work? How about Babe Ruth? Struck out (I'm no sports fan, so please accept this generalization)what, twice as much as he hit homers? They didn't lose 150 matches, maybe they just learned 150 ways not to win...

Was edison inventing the lightbulb a competition between thousands of people? no. Sure, If I was the only pvp'er in the world, I wouldn't be complaining at all. Try making analogies that make sense.

Again, babe ruth struck out twice as much as he hit homers, but then again, are there any basebal fans that have 180+ home runs and 7 strikeouts (comparing to EViL's current record). Again, make analogies that are relevant. Don't use analogies that require different circumstances.

There aren't 150 ways to lose. Only 2. And they hit each of them 75 times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithie

Explain to me, why, out of 200+ guilds copying EvIL's build down to the very last skill, none of them are in the top 100?

Because they all get stomped by people who know what they're doing. EViL's individual builds are hard to run for people who suck enough to copy it.
Even so, in a case between to nearly identical builds, skill is a secondary requirement for winning. In a game of skill (check the GW boxes, that's what they say), skill should be a primary requisite for winning.

Enchanted Warrior · Aug 07, 2006, 07:53 PM // 19:53

I think the term "alpha class" fits them better. GW reinforces said class each time they make things so difficult, that only the alpha's can master it. That said, the ONLY thing they listen to (gw) is lack of sales. If you are truly unhappy with the status quo, don't order nightfall. If it fails miserably you are in the majority and they have to either listen or explain lost revenue to shareholders. If sales sore then you are in the minority and can either stay and live with it or go elsewhere.

The thing is, many people live in game, they wake up enter the game and stay throughout the day and night and only log out to sleep. They feel superior here and choose to dwell in game and seek refuge behind their assumed persona, be it a "nice" one or "rude" one. I've heard people say so many times.. "Dude I'm just role playing ..relax..". Which is what the game is for so I'm told. I can't be two people myself, for better or worse, I'm the same in game and out, warts and all.

I do have some concern at the rage some vent wantonly, and inflict on others. I see some potential time bombs ticking that are a hair from snapping. But to be fair I've seen that displayed in many online games, diseffected youth , social misfits, perhaps with real issues trying to find a release in game. Most in game assume GW does nothing to them, GW swears they do, more seem to exist.. So its viscous cycle. Although I feel defeated in doing so, I now have chat's off, except for guild. I do wish we had a way to make it so only people on our friends list could IM us. That would be a very desired addition in my opinion.

*Darcy* · Aug 07, 2006, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Back on Topic:

There is no cure (in-game or in real life) for elitism. Some people (of all ages) are insecure and need to feel that they are better-looking, richer, or have more costly toys than the next person. Changing the game will not change human nature.

Joining groups problem - a) adjust your build to suit the group/area, b) start your own group and don't tell them your build, just that you're not a healer, c) do as much of the game as you can with henchmen and never finish with this character.

OFF-TOPIC again

I will point out that your build as a smiting monk/ranger needs work to make it more attractive to groups (and more useful to you). You're currently wishy-washy in both professions. When joining a group, either drop the pet or give him at least one attack skill to make him more effective - Poisonous Bite if you have Factions - otherwise you are wasting two skill slots on him that you could use for monk skills, either smiting or healing.

Sli Ander · Aug 08, 2006, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

I dont have a problem with Elitism if the person is not full of hot air.

I dont have a problem with Newbies if they are willing to learn.

And no matter how much people think their little personal builds roxx00rzs teh box0rz it means very little to those who know how to play the game. If you want to throw a tantrum and label it elitism, I welcome it.

Sli Ander's build sure looks like a lot of fun, but to me it smacks of 'incompetence'. If you want to have fun with your own build that groups aren't really willing to sponsor, then I suggest you use henchies. I don't even know where to start with the general critique:

Healing breeze - subpar healing skill. This skill will not save anyone who is near death. Although you are an admiited smite monk, so I suppose you don't care.

rebirth - standard skill.

bane signet - why?

banish - why?

Shield of judgement - This works if you've got one tank (pray for no ench strips)

charm animal
comfort animal

Balthazar's Aura - so you're going to have someone tank with SoJ and then scatter all of the monsters with Balt's aura?

Your build might be fun, but you're being shortsighted and selfish by attempting to tell people that they should be forced to allow your type of gameplay. It's worse that your build is not anywhere near optimal (in comparison to a real axe warrior..? an MM? a ele nuker?) in terms of damage output. The biggest crime I think that lies with your accusations is that you put up a build like this and then cry "elitism" when people kick you from your group. I'm not entirely surprised to be honest. If I was forming a group and you told me the build, I would probably kick you as well unless you were willing to change your build.

If you want to smite, I suggest PvP's FotM Air of Ench smiting. It's about 20x better than your build.

Finally - it doesn't matter whether you like hearing elitist comments or not. The raw truth is just that, and no matter how much you close your eyes and cover your ears the fact will not change or go away.

My build smacks of incompetence? Your post smacks of the inability to read. I stated that I use that build to solo and hench. Its for fun, so I switch to something else when playing with a group. For a better explanation go look in the monk forum, I have it posted in a smiter thread.
Trying to force me to allow a certain type of gameplay? I thought that the point of playing an online game was that you could play any way you want, as long as it didn't ruin the fun for someone else. My build isn't 'optimal' but its a challenging and rewarding way to hench. I have no problem fulfilling a role in a group. I'm just asking that people expand exactly who is allowed to play what role.
As for closing my eyes and covering my ears, I'm not. I'm posting a thread asking for ideas on how to make it harder to be an 'alpha class'/elitist or whatever you wish to call it. And though the FotM may be 20x better, I find it more fun to play a build I've worked on myself. It's 20x more fun for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DARCY

Back on Topic:

There is no cure (in-game or in real life) for elitism. Some people (of all ages) are insecure and need to feel that they are better-looking, richer, or have more costly toys than the next person. Changing the game will not change human nature.

Joining groups problem - a) adjust your build to suit the group/area, b) start your own group and don't tell them your build, just that you're not a healer, c) do as much of the game as you can with henchmen and never finish with this character.

OFF-TOPIC again

I will point out that your build as a smiting monk/ranger needs work to make it more attractive to groups (and more useful to you). You're currently wishy-washy in both professions. When joining a group, either drop the pet or give him at least one attack skill to make him more effective - Poisonous Bite if you have Factions - otherwise you are wasting two skill slots on him that you could use for monk skills, either smiting or healing.

You were much politer about it, so I figured I'd answer you seperately. It's an odd build that I developed over time to work with henchies. When I work with a group, I often have to leave my cat at home because a) I have to heal or b) I have to put more smite in so that I can deal damage quicker. I'm currently working on a good smiting build by trying to get more Factions skills, a build much more suited to working with groups. But I have fun henching with this one.I've henched my way through everything but the high end missions, where I ended up having to fill a lot of healers rolls to be able to get into a group. Hopefully the advent of the Rit healer will give smiters a bit of breathing room. And hopefully Rit's won't get stuck being asked to do nothing but heal.

Rent · Aug 08, 2006, 03:36 AM // 03:36

I'm not sure why it's a bad thing to want to party with people who are good.

anonymous · Aug 08, 2006, 04:09 AM // 04:09

"Elitists" have every right to kick you for not using the build they want. They are the leader. You are not. You are joining them, not the other way around. If you dont like their leading do two things. One, leave. And two, start your own group. So many people complain about people getting kicked by the leader. Well guess what, if you are the leader you decide who is in and who is out. Stop being lazy and start your own group. Dont expect the people who arent lazy and start their own group to conform to your ways.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rent

I'm not sure why it's a bad thing to want to party with people who are good.

I wonder about that too. A lot of people seem to think that we have to put up with noobs or else we are "elitists"

Edit to add more stuff: (To Sli) You complain about being forced to play a certain style of game play. Well doesnt it work the other way around? You say you shouldnt have to put up with them. Should they have to put up with you?

Sli Ander · Aug 08, 2006, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymous

"Elitists" have every right to kick you for not using the build they want. They are the leader. You are not. You are joining them, not the other way around. If you dont like their leading do two things. One, leave. And two, start your own group. So many people complain about people getting kicked by the leader. Well guess what, if you are the leader you decide who is in and who is out. Stop being lazy and start your own group. Dont expect the people who arent lazy and start their own group to conform to your ways.
I wonder about that too. A lot of people seem to think that we have to put up with noobs or else we are "elitists"

1.I use the term 'Elitists' to describe people who are jerks. I've said before in this thread that there are acceptable reasons for kicking people. If you flame me because I carry a particular skill, calling me a noob, and then kick me, then yes you fall under the title of 'Elitist'. If you ask me to change my build to suit a role I was asked to fill before I joined the party, and I refuse(rudely): then you are being reasonable to kick me, because I'm not being enough of a team player to suit your needs.
2.And I've often seen people start their own groups, so its not always the best solution. I've often seen 20 people starting their own groups, but because everyone wants to be a leader, there are no followers to fill the ranks. Also, even if I'm the nominal leader, if I haven't done the mission before then I usually let someone more experienced tell us what needs to be done for the mission. Sometimes its more practical to follow, sometimes its best to lead, either way there is no reason to be impolite about it.
3. This thread is not just about people being kicked. Its about a general attitude of which everyone seems to think kicking/grouping is a good example. 'Elitism' is about people who are unreasonable, rude, and just plain jerks. I don't expect to walk into a group and have the group conform to 'my ways' I accept what they want or I leave. But if I want to smite, I announce it before joining. I let people know what they are in for when they invite me, so if I accept being into a group, it means I'm accepting the role that has been offered.
4. Putting up with 'noobs'(in reference to people who are new to the game, not Leeroy Jenkins know it alls) is part of the game. There is always going to be someone better at a particular aspect of the game, and someone who is always going to be worse. By playing with others, rather than henching, you accept the risk of playing with a human, and humans are prone to error. If you treat noobs with the same attitude with which you have posted in this thread, then I'd say you're much more suited to henching or playing with people who know you well enough that they won't be offended.
5. Keep that pride. You just showed yourself to be an 'Elitist' with that 'my way or the highway' kinda attitude. Its fine to want to play with a bunch of veterans. It's fine if you want to beat some mission in a certain time limit, or you don't want to have to repeat it half a dozen times. Thats why we have friends lists and guilds. But to treat complete strangers with such a dictatorial tone and insulting disdain is highly offensive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANONYMOUS

Edit to add more stuff: (To Sli) You complain about being forced to play a certain style of game play. Well doesnt it work the other way around? You say you shouldnt have to put up with them. Should they have to put up with you?

I'm in a minority in this game. I never attempt to force people to play my way, I simply ask that I be given the chance. Thats why I hench a lot. If nobody wants to play my way, the henchies will always help me out. But being force to play a certain way isn't all that this thread is about. I've heard lots of complaints about not being able to get into groups in PvP because of the rank system, or having to wait an hour to find enough people to start an unranked group. Should they have to put up with their time being wasted? Should the ranking people have to put up with their time being wasted if the new pvp'er rage quits? Everything goes both ways. Thats why this thread is about trying to get some ideas out about the problem and how to fix it. Fix it without ruining everyones game experience. If I want to be able to use my Smiting powers, they should be given a chance(Otherwise there is no point in having them). If they want to use nothing but premade builds, they already have the chance. I'm just trying to root for the underdogs here.

majoho · Aug 08, 2006, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sli Ander

Since when did doing what you're supposed to become fun? Seriously though, sometimes healing is fun, but it irks me that its 'required'. But I love being a monk, so I deal.

This is my build:
Healing breeze
rebirth
bane signet
banish
Shield of judgement
charm animal
comfort animal
Balthazar's Aura.
Go read the Smiting monks posts in the Monk forum. I've got the full explanation for it there. I use this to do henching and soloing. I've henched most of the missions, and 90% of the map with this.My cat outlasts henchmen and sometimes characters, while allowing me to do comparative damage.COMPARATIVE. Not the best, not the same as a warrior, but pretty good for a monk.

Yes, monks(except maybe 55's)can't tank. But humans will be humans. We come in all shapes, sizes and colors. Whats wrong with wanting to have a little variety? I heal when people politely ask, or if I know them well. But if you want me to play the role of a henchman, well, Mhenlo's standing right over there...I'll go take my inefficient build and beat you to the other side.

Damn that's a super crappy build for a group, just shows how good the henchies actually are in the game

Lordhelmos · Aug 08, 2006, 07:10 AM // 07:10

There is a solution to this, just ignore the elites and make friends. Play with trusted people and dont associate yourself with people that use the word noob or act like elitist scum. If you are an experienced player invest some of your time in people that are willing to learn and have a good attitude on the game. Its a staple of life, there will always be jerks. Just ignore them and dont be one yourself.

Although I have to admit ive been agitated the last couple of weeks and taking my frustrations out while trying to play. Its just a game so have fun, thats why you play right?

Rent · Aug 08, 2006, 11:51 AM // 11:51

I just don't understand why I would be labeled an "elitist" because I want to make sure that people who aren't idiots are the ones who end up in my group. Granted, I can't see how skilled Joe Pick-Up actually is until we're in an instance, but I can at least make sure that his skillbar isn't complete and utter crap.

More often than not, if I ask someone what they're running and the only way they can describe their build to me is by listing all of their skills, they're not worth taking.

I'm not interested in partying with people who are so desperate to show off their "individuality" and "creativity" and "pride in not running the things that countless other people have proven work". If you want to run some weird, off-the-wall build, go right ahead: you just won't get in my group.

Cebe · Aug 08, 2006, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sli Ander

Should necros be told to mm when they don't wish to?

I started as a Necro a couple of days ago, Now I got her to Kaineng Centre and I've set her up for curses. I'm going to go to Tyria to find her Blood Ritual. I'm interested to see if people will accept a curses necro into their group, since I sure as hell will not be changing to MM unless I want to!

Kick elitism square in the nuts!! If they don't want a curses necro - I'll do it with henchmen!!

I had the problem with being kicked out of groups when I started as my first character, an Elementalist. I love air magic, because the lightening just looks so godly! I used to get kicked out of groups because people didn't want an air spiker. They never thought to ask if I could change (since I keep a pyromancer's aura on me, as well as a ton of fire skills so I don't lose out on the attribute points), but they just kick me anyway, usually with the explanation "sorry - don't need you". Charming! It's as though people take ONE look at my aura, which is usually an aeromancer's aura and assume I'm crap since I'm an air spiker, never mind the Protector of Cantha title I have, which I got ONLY using air magic skills...

Mithie · Aug 08, 2006, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sli Ander

1.I use the term 'Elitists' to describe people who are jerks. I've said before in this thread that there are acceptable reasons for kicking people. If you flame me because I carry a particular skill, calling me a noob, and then kick me, then yes you fall under the title of 'Elitist'. If you ask me to change my build to suit a role I was asked to fill before I joined the party, and I refuse(rudely): then you are being reasonable to kick me, because I'm not being enough of a team player to suit your needs.

... And what else are you being kicked for? If they kick you because you have a particular skill that your group leader doesn't think belongs in his group, well he has that right. Just start your own group, like people said.

Quote:

2.And I've often seen people start their own groups, so its not always the best solution. I've often seen 20 people starting their own groups, but because everyone wants to be a leader, there are no followers to fill the ranks. Also, even if I'm the nominal leader, if I haven't done the mission before then I usually let someone more experienced tell us what needs to be done for the mission. Sometimes its more practical to follow, sometimes its best to lead, either way there is no reason to be impolite about it.

No. There are MORE "LFGs" in any mission group than "GLF"'s because people prefer to have other people do the work.

Quote:

3. This thread is not just about people being kicked. Its about a general attitude of which everyone seems to think kicking/grouping is a good example. 'Elitism' is about people who are unreasonable, rude, and just plain jerks. I don't expect to walk into a group and have the group conform to 'my ways' I accept what they want or I leave. But if I want to smite, I announce it before joining. I let people know what they are in for when they invite me, so if I accept being into a group, it means I'm accepting the role that has been offered.

So what's the problem here? If the group leader whose group you're getting into needs a smiter, he'll keep you. If he doesn't, you'll get kicked. I don't see what's so off the wall here... If no one wants a smiter, then just start your own group.

Quote:

4. Putting up with 'noobs'(in reference to people who are new to the game, not Leeroy Jenkins know it alls) is part of the game. There is always going to be someone better at a particular aspect of the game, and someone who is always going to be worse. By playing with others, rather than henching, you accept the risk of playing with a human, and humans are prone to error. If you treat noobs with the same attitude with which you have posted in this thread, then I'd say you're much more suited to henching or playing with people who know you well enough that they won't be offended.

I want to get through a mission while having the most amount of fun. Having some wammo aggor everything then complain about the monk being ineffective is not fun. Having a monk who's ineffective at healing because he blows all of his energy on earth elementalist skills while the rest of your team dies is not fun. If you want to bring a gimped build into my team and refuse to optimize/improve it after I tell you to, then, yeah, I have every right to kick you. Think that's unfair? Start your own group.

Quote:

5. Keep that pride. You just showed yourself to be an 'Elitist' with that 'my way or the highway' kinda attitude. Its fine to want to play with a bunch of veterans. It's fine if you want to beat some mission in a certain time limit, or you don't want to have to repeat it half a dozen times. Thats why we have friends lists and guilds. But to treat complete strangers with such a dictatorial tone and insulting disdain is highly offensive.

"dictatorial tone"? "insulting disdain"? Buddy, this is a video game. Get over it. Can't do that? Start your own group.

Quote:

I'm in a minority in this game. I never attempt to force people to play my way, I simply ask that I be given the chance. Thats why I hench a lot. If nobody wants to play my way,

Then I guess there's something wrong with your way. Ever think about that?

Quote:

the henchies will always help me out. But being force to play a certain way isn't all that this thread is about. I've heard lots of complaints about not being able to get into groups in PvP because of the rank system, or having to wait an hour to find enough people to start an unranked group. Should they have to put up with their time being wasted? Should the ranking people have to put up with their time being wasted if the new pvp'er rage quits?

I've never had trouble finding an unranked group in HA.

Quote:

Everything goes both ways. Thats why this thread is about trying to get some ideas out about the problem and how to fix it. Fix it without ruining everyones game experience. If I want to be able to use my Smiting powers, they should be given a chance(Otherwise there is no point in having them). If they want to use nothing but premade builds, they already have the chance. I'm just trying to root for the underdogs here.

I have no problem if you want to join my group with a non-premade build, as long as you can fill the role you're suppose to. Spreading deep wounds with shattered pain and epidemic? Welcome aboard! Death nova on summoned minions with taste of death as trigger? Welcome aboard! Monk/Ranger with attributes spead out over all 7 lines and a skill from each? No thanks.

Cebe · Aug 08, 2006, 12:25 PM // 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithie

... And what else are you being kicked for? If they kick you because you have a particular skill that your group leader doesn't think belongs in his group, well he has that right. Just start your own group, like people said.

If you get kicked without even being requested that you change your skills, if the 'leader' just assumes that the skills you have on your skillbar are the ONLY ones you have, then yes, he is being an elitest git and certainly anything but a team player!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithie

No. There are MORE "LFGs" in any mission group than "GLF"'s because people prefer to have other people do the work.

That's me right there - I'm real lazy - I must admit I'd prefer someone else to put the group together... Occaisonally during a mission I may put my foot down and try to persuade people sto do it another way if our leader seems a little incapable - but it's never that often.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithie

So what's the problem here? If the group leader whose group you're getting into needs a smiter, he'll keep you. If he doesn't, you'll get kicked. I don't see what's so off the wall here... If no one wants a smiter, then just start your own group.

Urm, no-one wants a smiter. Also, if you say "Smiter LFG", you'll get invited anyway because you are a monk and NOONE will take any notice that you are a smiter until you're in the mission and noone gets healed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithie

If you want to bring a gimped build into my team and refuse to optimize/improve it after I tell you to, then, yeah, I have every right to kick you. Think that's unfair? Start your own group.

Quite - If you don't come to an agreement with your party leader about your skills then he really does have the right to let you go... "Kick" is such an emotive word...

Swampgirl Inez · Aug 08, 2006, 12:31 PM // 12:31

This is rapidly becoming a circular argument and a potential flamewar.

Closed.